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  1. #51
    Administrator Jason Svoboda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SycamoreStateofMind View Post
    You got 30+ games to prove you belong in the NCAA tourney and or the NIT. If that aint enough opportunity to show you belong on that stage or at a level beyond college then I can’t flipping help you kids.

    The NCAA tourney has an expanded field to what 68 teams??

    The NIT is what 32 teams??

    If you aint in the top 100 teams in the country then go sit your ass home and watch. You don’t deserve to keep playing and I don’t deserve to have to keep watching.

    Thank God track is a non revenue generating sport - if they had something short of the NCAA tourney and I qualified for it as an athlete I would have kindly declined. I went to a D1 school to be the best and compete against the best. The NCAA tourney is the best of the best. The NIT that is the next best of the best. Everyone else deserves to go home had as I had to in track for 4 years - it’s what I deserved I wasn’t good enough. Tough luck - should got my ass in the weight room and put in more miles.
    There is a reason why those extra tournaments exist. The selection committees for both the NCAA and NIT are P6 focused -- I include the Big East in hoops. You have 351 schools so that means essentially you'd have at least 175 that are above .500. When you're the ACC, Big East, Big 12, Big 10 and Pac 10 and SEC and buy 8-10 non-con HOME wins out the gate, odds are you've punched your ticket to the big dance or the NIT before you even get into the conference slate.

    ACC has 15 teams and 12 of them had 19+ wins and 12 that were .500 or better.
    BE has 10 teams and 7 of them had 19+ wins and 8 that were .500 or better.
    B10 has 14 teams and 7 of them had 19+ wins and 8 that were .500 or better.
    B12 has 10 teams and 7 of them had 19+ wins and 9 that were .500 or better.
    P12 has 12 teams and 7 of them had 19+ wins and 10 that were .500 or better.
    SEC has 14 teams and 9 of them had 19+ wins and 12 that were .500 or better.

    So of 75 P6 schools, 49 had 19+ wins and 59 were .500 or better. So 60% of the schools in the P6 are NCAA/NIT eligible and likely ticket punches because of the inherent advantage of the system between buying their home wins and RPI boost from conference slate.

    Then if you get into the second tier of conferences that have high annual spends -- the AAC, A10 and CUSA, MWC and the WCC, you could damn near fill the remaining 31 spots -- AAC had 6 teams with 19+ wins, A10 had 3, CUSA had 6, MWC had 7 and WCC had 3. This is without taking into the "poor side of town rules" for the NCAA/NIT AQs. So that's 11 of the 32 Division 1 conferences we've looked at and they have 74 teams with 19+ wins.

    If that's the case, we should just let a computer alg handle the shit and be done with it. No NIT, no play in game... tough shit that you went 24-8 and you couldn't get a sub RPI 150 team to play you within a 3 state radius -- do better you bums. Nevermind your senior has played his ass off for you for four years... he should have won the automatic bid if he wanted to play in the Big Dance. Fuck that guy. Let's just let some math geeks come up with an alg, it will spit out the best 64 teams based on numbers, take the human element out of it and that's it. We'll get about what we get every year -- a tournament loaded with P6 schools and the AQs.
    Last edited by Jason Svoboda; 03-13-2018 at 09:25 AM.
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  3. #52
    Supporting Member SycamoreStateofMind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Svoboda View Post
    There is a reason why those extra tournaments exist. The selection committees for both the NCAA and NIT are P6 focused -- I include the Big East in hoops. You have 351 schools so that means essentially you'd have at least 175 that are above .500. When you the ACC, Big East, Big 12, Big 10 and Pac 10 and SEC and buy 8-10 non-con HOME wins out the gate, odds are you've punched your ticket to the big dance or the NIT before you even get into the conference slate.

    ACC has 15 teams and 12 of them had 19+ wins and 12 that were .500 or better.
    BE has 10 teams and 7 of them had 19+ wins and 8 that were .500 or better.
    B10 has 14 teams and 7 of them had 19+ wins and 8 that were .500 or better.
    B12 has 10 teams and 7 of them had 19+ wins and 9 that were .500 or better.
    P12 has 12 teams and 7 of them had 19+ wins and 10 that were .500 or better.
    SEC has 14 teams and 9 of them had 19+ wins and 12 that were .500 or better.

    So of 75 P6 schools, 49 had 19+ wins and 59 were .500 or better. So 60% of the schools in the P6 are NCAA/NIT eligible and likely ticket punches because of the inherent advantage of the system between buying their home wins and RPI boost from conference slate.

    Then if you get into the second tier of conferences that have high annual spends -- the AAC, A10 and CUSA, MWC and the WCC, you could damn near fill the remaining 31 spots -- AAC had 6 teams with 19+ wins, A10 had 3, CUSA had 6, MWC had 7 and WCC had 3. This is without taking into the "poor side of town rules" for the NCAA/NIT AQs. So that's 11 of the 32 Division 1 conferences we've looked at and they have 74 teams with 19+ wins.

    If that's the case, we should just let a computer alg hand the shit and be done with it. No NIT, no play in game... tough shit that you went 24-8 and you couldn't get a sub RPI 150 team to play you within a 3 state radius -- do better you bums. Nevermind your senior has played his ass off for you for four years... he should have won the automatic bid if he wanted to play in the Big Dance. Fuck that guy. Let's just let some math geeks come up with an alg, it will spit out the best 64 teams based on numbers, take the human element out of it and that's it. We'll get about what we get every year -- a tournament loaded with P6 schools and the AQs.
    Articulated quite nicely here - kudos.

    The system is broken - I agree. I donít think the extra tournaments are a solution to the problem. Theyíre simply just throwing you a bone to say here help us generate more revenue. I donít think they really care that said team or player came up short.
    Roll Timber!

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  5. #53
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    Agree completely

  6. #54
    Administrator Jason Svoboda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SycamoreStateofMind View Post
    Articulated quite nicely here - kudos.

    The system is broken - I agree. I don’t think the extra tournaments are a solution to the problem. They’re simply just throwing you a bone to say here help us generate more revenue. I don’t think they really care that said team or player came up short.
    There is no solution to the problem that doesn't include the separation of the power schools from the rest IMO. With that, I think you have the collapse of MM/LM conferences since they wouldn't get propped up with NCAA tournament units and other D1 hoop subsidies like the buy games.

    I really liked the NCAA automatically generated schedules idea but that won't happen because there are 351 teams and all of those "preseason" and holiday MTEs would be damn near impossible to programatically handle, especially since some of them come and go.

    Also, programs usually lose money with the CIT/CBI games since they're campus hosted and end up being mid-major heavy when most mid-major students/alumni are supporting their "childhood" favorites in the NCAA tournament. We've got what we've got -- the table scraps from HMs. We're supposed to enjoy it and thank our masters.
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  8. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Svoboda View Post
    We've got what we've got -- the table scraps from HMs. We're supposed to enjoy it and thank our masters.
    And I have enjoyed it for 52 years. I accept the fact that I will never again see us in the championship game again but I don't lose sleep over it. There are other things that are much more important.

  9. #56
    Sixth Man
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    Exactly what would be wrong with 64 first round, geographically based, seeded sites with mostly 6 teams/site?

    Certainly, a tournament where each school has scholarship players in the same quantity, if not quality, would be closer to equitable than the IHSAA single class tourney was for generations. The first round excitement would return to the tourney that is practically devoid of it now.

    There would be some squabbling and negotiating for sure. I expect Duke and UNC would each get their own 6 team site but that is a minor problem. For fans it would be a giant boost of having games reasonably close to home and the chance to knock off the local giants with most of the arena rooting for you.

    If the AD's of the mid-majors won't defend their own interests by advocating such a format, then they deserve the 1000 people in the seats and starving finances the current system creates.

    64-68 teams is exactly the perfect number for the power conferences and the worst for everyone else. If we had a 32 team NCAA field, all of a sudden the talent would disperse to the other leagues where kids felt they had a better chance to get in the tourney: the situation that gave us Jacksonville, Drake and ISU in the Final Four. As the field grew and slots went to the P5, so did the players. Going the other direction would be equally effective and instead of stopping at 128, just do away with Conference Tourneys and replace with the 64 first round sites.

    An Indianapolis site of IU, ISU, Butler, IUPUI, Evansville and IPFW would sell out. A Chicago site of LUC, DePaul, Northwestern, ND, UWM and Valpo would be great. This is too easy and logical to be implemented but the smaller schools certainly have the votes to make it happen if they had the guts. Lacking that, the ISU's of the world get what they deserve.

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  11. #57
    Sixth Man
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    I would be glad with a tournament bid let alone a championship game.

  12. #58
    Administrator Jason Svoboda's Avatar
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    And Oklahoma is bounced by Rhode Island.
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  14. #59
    Supporting Member bluestreak's Avatar
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    Can I hear an "Amen."
    The Dude: I do mind, the Dude minds. This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man

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    Amen!
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