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  1. #1
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    A common theme....


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    We all talk about ISUís lack of funds and lack of resources compared the the rest of the MVC but are we actually using the funds properly? New to the board here but their is a common theme when it comes to basketball success in the MVC. What do Creighton, Wichita, and now Loyola all have in common? No football program hogging resources. The ISU football program is the biggest drain on Indiana St. athletics. Our basketball program would benefit greatly if it was disbanded. UMBC just off of one big upset has not had the number of applicants sky rocket for next year. Guarantee Loyola will have the same. Being in the NCAA tourney discussion is much bigger than 1aa football playoffs. It may not be a popular opinion but the football program needs to go. You put the money going to football right now directly behind menís basketball and you will see great improvement.

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  3. #2
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    Welcome to the board and quality first post! Hope you stick around! We have had this discussion before on the board and this is where myself and others stand as well..At this point the only solution is for people like us to do two things..1.When you donate money.. donate everything specifically to the MBB program. 2. Email/call/ use social media to voice your opinion to president Curtis and AD Clinkscales early and often. With the Hulman Center project just about to kick off this is a crucial time to get this thing turned around.

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    Welcome to the board but please, the next time you post , pull your head out of your back side. Your idea has a bad odor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sycamore tuff View Post
    Welcome to the board but please, the next time you post , pull your head out of your back side. Your idea has a bad odor.
    Why the ad hominem? Until Curtis, Clink, or Campbell PUBLICLY say “as long as I’m (President, AD, on BOT) there will be ISU Football” the drop football folks have some legitimacy. Especially after showing we couldn’t compete in the MVFC in 2017–even against the bottom of the conference.

    2018 and 2019 will be extremely important seasons for ISU Football. Lots of people on various boards yesterday pointed out VCU, Loyola, Wichita, Gonzaga, George Mason, UMBC, FGCU—none have to spend on Football. Butler, Dayton, Valpo do but non-scholarship. If we can’t compete in the MVFC and mid-majors continue to make these kinds of March b-ball deep runs I am afraid the drop football drums will beat louder—especially with a newly renovated Hulman Center. ISU really, really needs vocal leadership on this issue now— not in 2019 or 2020.

    Deb Curtis gets inaugurated in a few weeks. She could use that bully pulpit to put this annoying issue to rest when she makes her inauguration speech.
    Last edited by Hooper; 03-25-2018 at 09:43 AM.

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  7. #5
    Administrator Jason Svoboda's Avatar
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    Here are the most recent numbers (7/2016 to 6/2017) per the Equity in Athletic's data of how our $15.4m athletic budget was spent. I have sorted them from greatest to least.

    $4,760,387 - All other women's sports combined

    $4,048,548 - Football
    $3,076,645 - Expenses not allocated by gender/sport
    $1,866,603 - Men's basketball
    $1,642,172 - All other men's sports combined
    $1,211,884 - Women's basketball
    ---
    $15,394,355

    Here is that $15.4m exploded in a little more detail -- as far as they go and sorted:

    $3,076,645 - Expenses not allocated by gender/sport
    $2,667,916 - Men's athletic related student aid
    $1,979,164 - Women's athletic related student aid
    $1,577,633 - Total men's operating (game day) expenses
    $995,600 - Total men's assistant salaries
    $974,757 - Total women's operating (game day) expenses
    $615,936 - Total men's head coach salaries
    $564,732 - Total women's head coach salaries
    $466,025 - Total women's head coach salaries
    $305,909 - Total men's recruiting expenses
    $133,078 - Total women's recruiting expenses

    https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/institution/search

    The double edged sword to football is that you have to provide "substantially proportionate" opportunities for women at your school per Title IX. That includes non-scholarship walk-ons, which is why when our roster went to over 100 under Sanford, you saw us add another women's sport. The OpEd data says we have 198 unduplicated male participants and 190 unduplicated female participants.
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    Supporting Member IndyTreeFan's Avatar
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    If we cut football, that $4M goes away. It will not be spent on men’s basketball. So then, no football AND non-competitive basketball. Yeah, that’ll be fun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyTreeFan View Post
    If we cut football, that $4M goes away. It will not be spent on men’s basketball. So then, no football AND non-competitive basketball. Yeah, that’ll be fun.

    I am not sure that all goes away. We spend a lot more now on football now than we bring in. By far. I have been anti - football at isu since they eliminated the tennis program. I was pretty connected to ISU tennis. Most people don’t realize now that isu men’s tennis was the premier program in the MVC. Yet soon after their fantastic run we eliminate tennis at a time that football was as about as low as it could get. Brian Boland after ISU went onto win 4 national titles.I realize that football is the bell cow in sports but unless you are a big time power 5 school that is generating hundreds of millions it just cost to much to operate and be competitive. Football also kills other men’s programs with the title 9 issues at the smaller schools. We have to start maximizing men’s basketball. It’s our premier program and it needs to be treated as such. Being in NCAA tournament and possibly winning games in the tournament is worth so much money. 1aa playoffs in football do not compare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyTreeFan View Post
    If we cut football, that $4M goes away. It will not be spent on men’s basketball. So then, no football AND non-competitive basketball. Yeah, that’ll be fun.
    I don't see how that is true..will 4 mil be dumped into mbb? Hell no.. Maybe I'm missing something here and if so help me out... But how can you make the statement none of that money would be used there?? Or any of the money that we have to spend on non rev. Women's sports to counter balance football.. If it nets the mbb program even another mill that's a big deal.. But I agreed with Curtis and adm needing to make a statement with football...However, just saying it will be around or not is not enough. That stadium is a piece of shit that drains money just to maintain its shittness. If you want to say "we will have football" what is the vision for fixing that situation and having a program that can flourish??

    I know football alum personally and If we could do it I'd love to support both..

    But realistically in our predicament we can only support one at a semi high level. -Which one if currently more supported by the community?
    Basketball. Look at this board for example..Hell we can't even even find ppl to post back and forth about football here. -Which one if successful could get Indiana State the most national notoriety..Basketball, even runs to the sweet 16 or one big upset nets you more pub than NDSU has gotten in 1AA for winning multiple titles. -Which would you have to invest more in to become relevant? Football, we were gifted half of this HC renovation..We would need a brand new expensive stadium to be relevant in football. The state is not hooking us up with 40 mil to start that.. Not to mention annual expenses for football run higher anyways and require more money to upkeep..think even simple things like you are buying 85 jerseys compared to 15..
    Last edited by Southgrad07; 03-25-2018 at 10:16 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyTreeFan View Post
    If we cut football, that $4M goes away. It will not be spent on menís basketball. So then, no football AND non-competitive basketball. Yeah, thatíll be fun.
    How do you know this?

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    Also, just so we have complete data here, here are the revenue sport spends for the MVC and MVFC/PFL:

    MVC:

    $3,359,417 - Bradley
    $2,933,596 - Drake
    $2,856,369 - Northern Iowa
    $2,821,576 - Loyola
    $2,622,979 - Evansville
    $2,576,969 - League Average
    $2,506,636 - Missouri State
    $2,397,794 - Valparaiso
    $2,311,466 - Illinois State
    $2,093,251 - Southern Illinois
    $1,866,603 - Indiana State

    MVFC:

    $5,281,392 - North Dakota State
    $4,048,610 - Southern Illinois
    $4,048,548 - Indiana State
    $4,023,675 - Youngstown State
    $4,016,804 - Illinois State
    $3,877,243 - League Average
    $3,599,407 - Missouri State
    $3,588,676 - South Dakota
    $3,549,488 - Northern Iowa
    $3,356,974 - South Dakota State
    $3,258,851 - Western Illinois

    PFL:

    $1,108,158 - Valparaiso
    $1,028,182 - Drake

    Source: https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/
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