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  1. #21
    Starter Bob Evans's Avatar
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    You can't have it both ways. On one hand, say how great Scott was and on the other hand complain about 4 straight losing seasons. Scott was good but I don't think you can count him as anything more than just good when the teams he was on lost more than they won. The ball went into a black hole when it got passed to him SO MANY times. It went in, but it wasn't coming out, at least not to a teammate. I hate to contribute to the negativity on this board that keeps me off of it for prolonged periods but I had to say something. Doggone it, I am going to be optimistic about the talent we have coming in and predict a winning season and some really good results. Enough with the negativity - right now ISU is undefeated. I think ISU is going to be much better.

  2. #22
    Supporting Member SycamoreStateofMind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Evans View Post
    You can't have it both ways. On one hand, say how great Scott was and on the other hand complain about 4 straight losing seasons. Scott was good but I don't think you can count him as anything more than just good when the teams he was on lost more than they won. The ball went into a black hole when it got passed to him SO MANY times. It went in, but it wasn't coming out, at least not to a teammate. I hate to contribute to the negativity on this board that keeps me off of it for prolonged periods but I had to say something. Doggone it, I am going to be optimistic about the talent we have coming in and predict a winning season and some really good results. Enough with the negativity - right now ISU is undefeated. I think ISU is going to be much better.
    Ahhh we weeded out someone who had convinced themselves we would be better because of the departure of Scott and it stung a little to find out everyone didn't feel that way.

    Let me get this right, you're going to preach positivism at the expense of discrediting a player who over the course of 4 years averaged 30 mins a game, 13+ ppg, 1.5 stl, 2 ast, 4.5 rbs MVC Freshman of the Year, 1 time MVC 2nd team, 2 time MVC 3rd team. #4 All Time in scoring. #2 in 3 pointers. #8 in steals. That sure is an interesting way to try and make a case for fans to be positive & optimistic.

    In others words you can come on here and label him "good" or whatever you want to do. But the numbers say otherwise, he was exceptional - we all have reason(s) to be excited about next season. But if you or anyone else wants to have hope at the expense of a player who was really good for us - you're hope is nothing but false hope. Blaming Scott for four straight losing seasons is a complete cop out.

    So yes - I/anyone can have it both ways. Scott was a great player for us - maybe if this program had a decorated past he wouldn't have gone down as an all timer - but we don't and he did. I will also not hide from the fact that while he was a good individual player for us his teams did not get the job done. I don't put that burden squarely on his shoulders - not at all. He did his part and should be celebrated for it. A lot of really good D1 basketball players end up on shitty teams for 4 years. It doesn't mean that player wasn't really as good as his numbers indicate - what it means is something else is really wrong: player development, recruiting, coaching, offense/defense, fan support, fundraising, etc. etc. or a combination of many things.

    If we win next season (and God I pray we win), I can assure you it will not be because Scott graduated. Anyone who thinks that or even suggests that really needs to reevaluate things. It says quite a bit about the shape of this program and how fragile our fan base is that we even have to have this conversation.
    Last edited by SycamoreStateofMind; 06-21-2018 at 10:16 AM.
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  4. #23
    Administrator Jason Svoboda's Avatar
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    I think you can have it both ways, actually.

    The black hole comments make no sense to me -- actually infuriates me. Brenton had to play hero ball A LOT to boot. There would often be times guys would dribble out the clock and then just chuck it to him to do something with. Had he had a legit ball distributor all four years, I think he would have had an even better career. Had our talent level been just a little bit better in the front court, I also think his numbers would have been even better on top of that.

    Scott took 390 shots last year of the 1804 attempted -- 21.6% of the total. If anything, that says he probably didn't shoot enough. Over his career, he averaged 11.8 FGAs per game. I'd say that is pretty efficient to walk away as the schools #4 all-time leading scorer. If anything, he probably should have been in the 15+ shot category as most stars usually get about a third of the team attempts statistically.

    As for losing, that is a team proposition. If you look at his career numbers, that means 75-80% of the shots taken were done by his teammates. You basically could pencil him in for 15 points a night. He also worked hard at his defense and ended up #6 all-time in steals, #19 all-time in assists and, ready for this one, #16 all-time in rebounds by a six-foot-nothing combo guard. Scott came in, made some mistakes and was in Lansing's doghouse consistently. Instead of taking his ball and going somewhere else, he worked and ended up laying down a Top 10 career in program history.

    If anything, his teammates let him down.

    Now, moving on to this season, while Scott will be a huge loss just as Devonte was before him and Jake was before them, I like Barnes, I like Key and if some of the other guards can produce, you can cumulatively make up the losses. What I like is the freshman-to-sophomore jump as that is what coaches always say is the biggest progression. Scott went from a timid perimeter shooter that was soft defensively as a freshman and to an All-Valley performer on both ends. I expect similar jumps from our freshman that played. I also expect improvements from our bigs. Add in the additions of Williams and Neese, and it is a net positive from last year's roster IMO.

    Tying it back into a winning season, I've explained this but some don't want to hear it. We over schedule on our talent. We always have under Lansing. We routinely walk into conference play with a .500 or below record because we run into these tournaments and take on high majors. You guys said you don't want us playing EIU and the like, so you can't have that both ways. Some years when the stars line up, it breaks right for us. Not to mention, we can't buy our home games -- there is that money talk again that you all also complain about. I'm just going to drop this and leave it here.
    Last edited by Jason Svoboda; 06-21-2018 at 01:58 PM.
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  6. #24
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    I totally agree with Jason's comment in the last paragraph about us routinely over scheduling. The only thing that moves the needle for us as far as attendance, is winning or bringing in a big name program. The latter is almost impossible to do these days. We need to go into conference with some momentum and wins under our belt. If we get to where we have a consistent winner then we can schedule tougher.

  7. #25
    Administrator Jason Svoboda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meistro View Post
    I totally agree with Jason's comment in the last paragraph about us routinely over scheduling. The only thing that moves the needle for us as far as attendance, is winning or bringing in a big name program. The latter is almost impossible to do these days. We need to go into conference with some momentum and wins under our belt. If we get to where we have a consistent winner then we can schedule tougher.
    This is the theory I've been preaching for the last 9-12 months. I feel like it is the only way to combat our financial woes. We're already not going to the tournament so what does it matter if our non-conference schedule is weaker? The only people that will really complain about that is fellow MVC folks and you know what? Fuck them. Most of them have cash coming out of every orifice. When you lose or sit at .500, you also don't have large attendance numbers so the net loss should be trivial. Further, we've seen the lack of scheduling matter to our fellow Valley teams year-over-year so why conform to a system that already puts us at a disadvantage from the get go?

    Schedule weak with the goal of going into MVC play with double digit wins, having a healthy roster and being able to have worked out all of your kinks and roster issues those first two months. After 3-5 years of winning 18-22 games, your recruiting talent level should have risen where you can raise your scheduling profile along side it because you're now labeled a consistent winner. You hope that is what kick starts financial contributions and attendance and then you piggyback and continue to grow like a Butler, Wichita State, etc.
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  9. #26
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    When I look at this team next year.....I see a lot of guys who can shoot the basketball. Which begs the question if we are intentionally using the Golden State model??..or are things just falling into place that way. Seriously though...any combo of players we put on the floor next year should have at least 4 guys being a serious 3 point threat.

    Should be an entertaining season.....can't wait.

  10. #27
    Starter Bob Evans's Avatar
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    Very good well-informed responses to my post. You made me look foolish, and deservedly so. The stats back up your case. My post, as a result, looks like the rambling perceptions of an ignorant, frustrated fan, the type who I detest on this board. Accept my apologies. I will try to do better, think first before typing.


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