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View Poll Results: You be the coach - who is your starting lineup once Neese & Williams return?

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  • Same starting 5 & ease them in off the bench.

    8 50.00%
  • Start Neese for Holston.

    0 0%
  • Start Williams for Holston.

    4 25.00%
  • Start Neese & Williams for Holston & Thomas,

    1 6.25%
  • Doesn't Matter.

    3 18.75%
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  1. #1
    Supporting Member SycamoreStateofMind's Avatar
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    Neese/Williams vs. Current Roster


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    In just a few weeks we will have Neese and Williams back. I've been reluctant to talk about it personally because I distantly didn't want our team to use it as a crutch for sucking during the non-conference schedule. I was/am sincerely afraid that we'd take a situation like that and find a way to make an excuse for ourselves.

    So far - so good. Which is what we all wanted but it creates an interesting scenario for Lansing once both become eligible. I'm interested in hearing what you all would do if you were Lansing once the two become eligible.

    Personally, with us playing well so far if they became eligible today my plan would be to ease them in off the bench. If at any point our lineup needs a shot in the arm them you can bring one of a handful of guys off the bench to start in favor of anyone.

    If Lansing figures out a way to use this depth correctly we should be really dangerous. It's going to be a dogfight for playing time.

    Potential depth chart depending on match-ups/line-ups:

    PG. Barnes > Williams > Key
    SG. Key > Barnes > Neese > Hughes > Williams > Washington
    SF. Holston > Hughes > Washington > Williams
    PF. Thomas > Kessinger > Holston
    C. Rickman > Kessinger > Brink




    Disclaimer: I know I know - it doesn't matter who starts the game it matters who finishes the game. This thread is intended to create some interesting discussion not to debate the importance of who is in the starting line-up.
    Last edited by SycamoreStateofMind; 12-04-2018 at 12:31 PM.
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  3. #2
    Supporting Member TreeTop's Avatar
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    SO CLOSE TO HAVING THEM BOTH ON THE FLOOR!

    My starting five would be:

    Williams
    Barnes
    Key
    Thomas
    Rickman

    With Neese earning 6th Man of the Year Award in the MVC.

    In general, I look forward to the following players all sharing the court at the same time...

    Williams
    Barnes
    Key
    Neese
    Hughes

    With those five on the court, we could RUN and SHOOT.....defense would be a concern, but I'd still like to see it.
    Last edited by TreeTop; 12-04-2018 at 12:04 PM.
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  4. #3
    Administrator Jason Svoboda's Avatar
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    I actually think you'll see Williams likely move into the SF role. He was a guard in the Big Ten, but at 6-5, he is a quintessential Valley 3 as a point forward type that can both pass and rebound. His offense was always the question mark, but knowing how Lansing values defense, that is how I'm basing it.

    As for Neese, I don't think he starts. Provided he is ahead of Washington, I think he will spell Barnes/Key and provide second unit shooting. When Barnes goes to the bench, we basically lose a lot of versatility in the way nobody is a dead eye shooter so teams can simply relax some on defense. I believe his defense was the question mark, so that is also another reason why it makes sense for him being second unit.

    I think their additions mean we've seen the end of Martin getting minutes as a walk-on. Kudos to that kid though, he has done well all things considered. I also wouldn't fault the kid for looking at a LM starting PG spot elsewhere because he looks comfortable at our level and we have Bacote becoming eligible next year.

    What worries me is we may start to see a lot of crazy substitution patterns due to having two more talented folks eligible and I'm not sure who will see their minutes reduced outside of Martin. Washington could likely lose some minutes but he has shown glimpses. Brinkmeyer/Hunnerman likely lose theirs. Do you reduce Barnes/Key's minutes to preserve them for the end of the year? Do you play more small ball to get all of your talent on the floor? A lot of variables and moving parts when you add more toys.

    A balanced lineup I'd like to see:

    Barnes
    Key
    Williams
    Hughes
    Rickman

    When we need a stop, I'd like to see:

    Key
    Williams
    Holston
    Hughes
    Rickman

    Shit and giggles offensive lineup I'd like to see:

    Barnes
    Neese
    Key
    Hughes
    Thomas
    Last edited by Jason Svoboda; 12-04-2018 at 12:16 PM.
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  5. #4
    Supporting Member SycamoreStateofMind's Avatar
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    Lansing has been subbing out Key when we need a stop. I think partially to conserve him for O and partially because he's been battling injuries. But he's been favoring Washington in some pretty big D situations. He missed an assignment or two last game and one late closeout on the only guy that had been beating us but recovered nicely with a block a pos. later.

    Hughes has always done a good job drawing charges but outside of that is not a very good defender. He doesn't have a single steal all season long and often gets trashed on dribble drive. I think if he could improve his D he could become a pretty complete player. He handles the ball pretty well. He's a very capable passer that sees the floor well. Obviously has proved he can shoot and finish at the rim.

    That all said if we need a stop I think I'd go with Williams, Washington, Holston, Thomas, Rickman. It's great to have options - been a long time!
    Roll Timber!

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  7. #5
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    At least for the TCU game I would want to see the starting five the same. Give the current starting five a chance to hold their job and the new guys a chance to earn their job. Tough thing is, when they become eligible we can't screw around too much with the lineups due to a difficult schedule. In short order, I expect Williams to take Holston's starting spot simply because they both provide plus defense, but Williams should have the offensive edge. As Jason said, Neese off the bench really gives the offense a shot in the arm when JB gets a breather.

    I think the biggest difference with this years team is how much depth we have one through four. An offense with Williams handling the ball and Neese, JB and Key all ready to score is lethal. Lets hope we're 7-1 when we get them back!

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  9. #6
    Sixth Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by SycamoreStateofMind View Post
    Lansing has been subbing out Key when we need a stop. I think partially to conserve him for O and partially because he's been battling injuries. But he's been favoring Washington in some pretty big D situations. He missed an assignment or two last game and one late closeout on the only guy that had been beating us but recovered nicely with a block a pos. later.

    Hughes has always done a good job drawing charges but outside of that is not a very good defender. He doesn't have a single steal all season long and often gets trashed on dribble drive. I think if he could improve his D he could become a pretty complete player. He handles the ball pretty well. He's a very capable passer that sees the floor well. Obviously has proved he can shoot and finish at the rim.

    That all said if we need a stop I think I'd go with Williams, Washington, Holston, Thomas, Rickman. It's great to have options - been a long time!
    I agree with you on this except I think I would take out Thomas and put JB in and slide Williams to the 3, Holston to the 4.

  10. #7
    Supporting Member niklz62's Avatar
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    remind me who we get back when and why? I know neese has to sit out for transferring but when is he eligible.

  11. #8
    Supporting Member TreeTop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niklz62 View Post
    remind me who we get back when and why? I know neese has to sit out for transferring but when is he eligible.
    Oh boy. Hang back everyone, I've got this.

    (I kid).

    Cooper Neese transferred from Butler, he is eligible as of 12/16/18.
    Christian Williams transferred from Iowa, he is eligible as of 12/16/18.
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  13. #9
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    I know many will think I am talking about the new guys but that is not the case. This is just a general question. Stim;y stated my questions is:

    When does a sub giving a shot in the arm on offense become more important than having the same sub getting a kick in the butt on defense?
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  14. #10
    Supporting Member TreeTop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sycamore Proud View Post
    I know many will think I am talking about the new guys but that is not the case. This is just a general question. Stim;y stated my questions is:

    When does a sub giving a shot in the arm on offense become more important than having the same sub getting a kick in the butt on defense?
    When it relates to the last play of the game and said game being won or lost because of it.


    It's a tough question, because I think it depends on whether that sub is a straight-up liability on defense...and/or if they're generating a lot offense (ie points and assists).
    Last edited by TreeTop; 12-04-2018 at 06:10 PM.
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