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  1. #11
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    I question whether we will ever have a President that will ever see the benefit of paying a basketball coach more than he/she makes. That's why it's important for Clink to come up with outside money, something I believe he's working on.
    Last edited by meistro; 03-15-2019 at 02:47 PM.

  2. #12
    Supporting Member TreeTop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Svoboda View Post
    When looking at the basketball budget, you cannot compare a macro data point like that versus something micro like an individual season. It's not an apple-to-apple comparison. Nobody on the boards has defended Lansing and staff's coaching this year that I can recall? Nor has anyone defended the lack of production and consistency from the players, no? What the lack of budget can do is provide context as to why things are the way they are.

    You could easily assume or draw the conclusion that Lansing got the gig because of our budget. So the very root cause that everyone has complained about, Coach Lansing, could be result of lacking the budget to go after a higher profile candidate. I believe I've told the story on the boards before, but if not, I'll throw it out now. It's well past the water under the bridge phase now. When Coach McKenna was here, I was told he requested an additional administrative staff person to help with day-to-day basketball operations and it was denied. I was also told that he had stuff like rental car reimbursements denied on out-of-state recruiting trips and was told he should have driven instead. Is there any wonder why he jumped back with Dana the first chance he got?

    But back to your question, and increased basketball budget can help with MANY things that can touch everything.

    1) Head Coach Salary - Lansing is up to around $250-260k before any bonuses, media and camp proceeds I believe. We also know he kicks back quite a bit to the school from that as he is in the top donor tier. In any event, the base salary needs to be between $400-500k if you want to have your pick of the litter. That may seem like a lot, but when you consider the top jobs in the Summit/Horizon pay $350k, you're just barely moving ahead of them. On top of base, incentivize the hell out of it. $100k for 25 wins, $100k for a NCAA tournament berth, $50k for a Valley title, $25k for increasing attendance 5%, whatever.

    2) Assistant Coach Salary Pool - Same as above. Realistically, you probably need a total compensation pool of your head coach and assistants to be around $1m.

    3) Buy Games - Most programs win a majority of their games on their home floors and we're no different. The reason why scheduling is so difficult is the power conference teams know they don't have to travel and mid-major teams are stuck trying to save their jobs when scheduling in the non-conference if they know their conference slate is going to be difficult. We currently pay D2 schools between $10-25k to come in. That number jumps to bring in another mid-major.

    4) Recruiting - These AAU events are not cheap, especially when you consider you have 4 coaches out for pretty much every week during the Summer live period. I've actually talked to Greg about the gouging that happens as in the last 2-3 years, they have started making the coaches not only pay for admission but also to get the event guides that give you the team rosters and contact information. So that can run you around a thousand per coach per event and sometimes they are going back/forth between 2-3 events as each shoe company has their own events going on -- Nike has EYBL, AAU has the Association and Adidas has their Gauntlet series. Then you have other events that non-sponsor specific like NY2LA's event in Wisconsin, etc.

    5) Travel - More air travel and less bus time to keep the players and coaches fresher. Bus travel sucks.

    6) Alternate Jerseys - This may not matter to stuffy traditionalists, but having cool alternate jerseys and gear are things that get the kids hyped. Hell, check out how Northwestern let their seniors design a senior day set. Those little touches can set your program apart in recruiting battles.

    7) Technology - Remember our iPad drive so the guys could have access to game film outside of facilities. With a bigger budget, things like this wouldn't need to be crowdfunded in the first damn place. If someone as simple as that needs taken care of, what other basketball technology could help the program. This isn't basketball related, but when Liberty came into town a couple years back for football, that school had pretty much every bell and whistle for the players and even the fans that made the trek. Those that were there can recall -- it was like a pro team had rolled into Memorial.

    8) Creature Comforts/Facilities - Pretty self explanatory so won't really dig too much into that.

    I'm sure there are a couple other bullet points I could point to that would benefit the program, but I'll stop here. Just remember that once Lansing's contract expires, if our budget is still sitting at the $2m spot and hasn't been increased like football has, you could likely be having this very same conversation in another 5-7 years. Culture and success starts at the very top -- an administration and athletics department that will do what is necessary to field a winning program.
    I was just about to say that.
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  4. #13
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    I'll add:

    --Jason's McKenna story is true. I loved the guy but he wasn't shy about his opinion that ISU will never win a Valley Championship given its lack of commitment to the program

    --If they had a NetJets card or access to a jet, and were recruiting a rural player like Tyreke Key, they could fly down in the late afternoon, land at a regional or municipal airport with no TSA or crowds, watch the game, and fly back that night. 4-5 hours tops. As it stands, they were driving down 6-8 hours, going to the game, and either driving back that night or staying the night and coming back the next day. That's a lot of time to have a coach occupied, especially in the middle of the season, unable to do other things

    --I've won a few "travel with the team" packages over the years. They fly on planes that remind you of the "call the stewardess, Vaughn" scene in Major League. Some players developed a legitimate fear of flying after flying back from Wichita one year with the plane being thrown all over the sky. I was also on another Wichita trip where we couldn't afford a plane that had the range to get us to Wichita. We had to land in Missouri to refuel. That's happened on other trips I'm told.

    --A Netjets card or jet access gets you to more AAU and Camps quicker.

    --Some extra money could get a professional production team and commentators. Donors and recruits are watching the broadcast and we don't look like a first class operation with some of the awful stuff we put on ESPN3. To be fair, the students were much better this year....but its still students. Pay some pros a few hundred bucks a game. That's all it takes.

    --Marketing. More TV spots, more billboards, more radio. I hear and see some in Indy but not enough. Also money for more promotions (half court for tuition or a car). Many more students would come out for those kinds of big ticket prizes.

    --Facilities. The current private hospitality room for $2500 and up donors is small, has one hot item, and a small bar. It's always cramped at halftime. Build a visible club level for high level donors (see Henke level at Gloomington) and other's will look and say "hey how do I get up there?" and donate. Put in leather chairs and couches and big flat screens. Impress new fans and recruits on their visit. Also a separate practice facility keeps you from having to schedule around other teams and events at Hulman Center. Build one.

    Lansing does great with what he has. We generally follow the 400-mile rule on Bus v. Fly. The team is well-fed when they travel and stay in pretty good hotels. But when you have the above and what Jason said, you impress recruits and their families. Higher profile assistants want to come here. More highly touted recruits will want to come here. You win more games and sell more tickets.
    Last edited by Hooper; 03-15-2019 at 01:57 PM.

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  6. #14
    Supporting Member IndyTreeFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hooper View Post
    I'll add:

    --Jason's McKenna story is true. I loved the guy but he wasn't shy about his opinion that ISU will never win a Valley Championship given its lack of commitment to the program

    --If they had a NetJets card or access to a jet, and were recruiting a rural player like Tyreke Key, they could fly down in the late afternoon, land at a regional or municipal airport with no TSA or crowds, watch the game, and fly back that night. 4-5 hours tops. As it stands, they were driving down 6-8 hours, going to the game, and either driving back that night or staying the night and coming back the next day. That's a lot of time to have a coach occupied, especially in the middle of the season, unable to do other things

    --I've won a few "travel with the team" packages over the years. They fly on planes that remind you of the "call the stewardess, Vaughn" scene in Major League. Some players developed a legitimate fear of flying after flying back from Wichita one year with the plane being thrown all over the sky. I was also on another Wichita trip where we couldn't afford a plane that had the range to get us to Wichita. We had to land in Missouri to refuel. That's happened on other trips I'm told.

    --A Netjets card or jet access gets you to more AAU and Camps quicker.

    --Some extra money could get a professional production team and commentators. Donors and recruits are watching the broadcast and we don't look like a first class operation with some of the awful stuff we put on ESPN3. To be fair, the students were much better this year....but its still students. Pay some pros a few hundred bucks a game. That's all it takes.

    --Marketing. More TV spots, more billboards, more radio. I hear and see some in Indy but not enough. Also money for more promotions (half court for tuition or a car). Many more students would come out for those kinds of big ticket prizes.

    --Facilities. The current private hospitality room for $2500 and up donors is small, has one hot item, and a small bar. It's always cramped at halftime. Build a visible club level for high level donors (see Henke level at Gloomington) and other's will look and say "hey how do I get up there?" and donate. Also a separate practice facility keeps you from having to schedule around other teams and events at Hulman Center. Build one.

    Lansing does great with what he has. We generally follow the 400-mile rule on Bus v. Fly. The team is well-fed when they travel and stay in pretty good hotels. But when you have the above and what Jason said, you impress recruits and their families. Higher profile assistants want to come here. You sell more tickets and win more games.
    You have that last one backward. You win more games, and then you sell more tickets. It doesn't work, consistently, the other way around...

  7. #15
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    So edited.

  8. #16
    Administrator Jason Svoboda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyTreeFan View Post
    Question on this one - do you have to pay another team to come play you if it's a home and home?
    Depends on what is negotiated. Back when that Basketball Travelers board was open to view, they would note if concessions would be made, etc. Usually they would just provide local hotel accommodations IIRC.

    The thing that scares away coaches is the fact that a team would be a 100 RPI one year and then a 250 the next if the opponent graduated a bunch.
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  10. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by meistro View Post
    I question whether we will ever have an President that will ever see the benefit of paying a basketball coach more than he/she makes. That's why it's important for Clink to come up with outside money, something I believe he's working on.
    Good point.. Most people I have talked to have been less than pleased with her "vision" or lack there of for basketball..

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    Supporting Member 4Q_iu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SycamoreinTexas View Post
    John and Nellie Wooden name off the court and put someone more deserving

    Such as?

    Hulman Center opened in Dec 1973

    Gordon Stauffer 19-9 (.679)
    Bob King 44-6 (.880)
    Hodges 44-16 (.733)
    Schellhase 29-14 (.674)
    Greene 28-29 (.491)
    Locke 39-23 (.629)
    Dillard 20-20 (.500)
    Waltman 88-51 (.633)
    McKenna 28-14 (.667)
    Lansing 85-38 (.691)
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  12. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southgrad07 View Post
    Good point.. Most people I have talked to have been less than pleased with her "vision" or lack there of for basketball..
    "I'll never pay a coach more than a Provost"--Dan Bradley.

    So far it's held true. Licari makes more than Lansing and Mallory....though Lansing might sneak by him this year by a few thousand. Ridiculous.

  13. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southgrad07 View Post
    Good point.. Most people I have talked to have been less than pleased with her "vision" or lack there of for basketball..
    At the reunion game, my wife heard her say she wishes there were that many people at every game. If she really does, she needs to put her money where her mouth is.

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