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  1. #1
    Supporting Member skdent1414's Avatar
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    2010/2011 vs 2019/2020 Roster


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    Let’s compare the roster of our last tourney team vs what we have now. This is to spark some off season convo so please join in. You can break it down by head to head matchups, or as a team. I have paired up players based on similar size and positions. Let me know what you all think.

    Kitchell 6’10 225 Kessinger 6’8 230
    Martin 6’8. 220 Brinkmeyer 6’9 215
    Walker 6’8 250 Agbo 6’8 280
    Mahurin 6’8 185 LaRavia 6’8 220
    Doluony 6’8 195 T Williams 6’7 240
    Kelly 6’6. 185 C Barnes 6’6 215
    Richard 6’5 215 C Williams 6’5 210
    Odum 6’4 170 J Barnes 5’11 155
    Printy 6’4 185 Neese 6’4 190
    Carter 6’4 195 Bacote 6’3 175
    Lathan. 6’3 205 Key 6’2 205
    McWhorter 6’2 185 Hankins 6’4 195
    Lu. Eitel 6’2 185 Washington 6’3 210
    Lo. Eitel. 6’2 180 Martin 6’0 180
    Last edited by skdent1414; 06-22-2019 at 12:04 AM.

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    I have '20 team as +7 head-to-head based on ONLY talent. Definitely NOT the whole picture. '11 PG is a big +.
    '20 has more handles, quicker at 3-5 positions and more than 1 special player.
    Last edited by sycamorebacker; 06-22-2019 at 03:05 AM.

  3. #3
    Supporting Member skdent1414's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sycamorebacker View Post
    I have '20 team as +7 head-to-head based on ONLY talent. Definitely NOT the whole picture. '11 PG is a big +.
    '20 has more handles, quicker at 3-5 positions and more than 1 special player.
    I would have to agree with you. Of course it’s difficult because we haven’t seen some of these freshmen and redshirts play. And you are taking freshman JO over senior JB with a big +? I’m not saying you are wrong. But that one is closer in my eyes. I’m probably taking JB with the plus here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skdent1414 View Post
    I would have to agree with you. Of course it’s difficult because we haven’t seen some of these freshmen and redshirts play. And you are taking freshman JO over senior JB with a big +? I’m not saying you are wrong. But that one is closer in my eyes. I’m probably taking JB with the plus here.
    I didn't consider class because of unknown development and to keep it simple. Only talent.

  5. #5
    Supporting Member SycamoreStateofMind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skdent1414 View Post
    Let’s compare the roster of our last tourney team vs what we have now. This is to spark some off season convo so please join in. You can break it down by head to head matchups, or as a team. I have paired up players based on similar size and positions. Let me know what you all think.

    Kitchell 6’10 225 Kessinger 6’8 230
    Martin 6’8. 220 Brinkmeyer 6’9 215
    Walker 6’8 250 Agbo 6’8 280
    Mahurin 6’8 185 LaRavia 6’8 220
    Doluony 6’8 195 T Williams 6’7 240
    Kelly 6’6. 185 C Barnes 6’6 215
    Richard 6’5 215 C Williams 6’5 210
    Odum 6’4 170 J Barnes 5’11 155
    Printy 6’4 185 Neese 6’4 190
    Carter 6’4 195 Bacote 6’3 175
    Lathan. 6’3 205 Key 6’2 205
    McWhorter 6’2 185 Hankins 6’4 195
    Lu. Eitel 6’2 185 Washington 6’3 210
    Lo. Eitel. 6’2 180 Martin 6’0 180
    Kessinger - toss up. Kessinger has been asked to do a lot in his career. He's battle tested.

    Brinkmeyer - although Martin was well liked and a + shot blocker I feel like he never lived up to his full potential. Give me Brink - simply because Martin didn't set the bar that high.

    Walker - simply because he played the 3 best games of his career in St. Louis to help us make the NCAA tournament. If Agbo could give us something close to what Walker was able to we will be in good shape.

    LaRavia - because I've seen him. I'm not sure he will be near the shooter that RJ was... But LaRavia is a better athlete and is a more versatile two way player.

    T. Williams - another low bar here. T. Williams is going to be a good player for us - might take a little time to develop but I think he's skilled enough that he can figure it out.

    Kelly - probably not even close or a fair one to compare. I'd probably compare Kelly to C. Williams since the two both transferred here from Iowa and have similar frames. I'd still give the nod to Kelly by a wide margin.

    Richard - I've always thought that people forget how good Richard was because of how he ended his career off the court. On the court he was a heck of a two way player for us. Williams has to dig deeper into his soul for us this year... I will go as far to say - if anyone is taking C. Williams over Richard here they are either being dishonest with themselves or really just have no idea what they are talking about.

    Odum - it's not about physical ability or basketball talent for me. It's about the one thing that has been lacking since Odum left. LEADERSHIP. Odum was everything you can want and more in a PG - the ultimate floor general. JB has been more concerned with himself and how his box score looks.

    Neese - toss up here... JP hit some big shots for us and always seemed to play within himself. Meanwhile - Neese hasn't seen a shot he didn't like and possesses a more aggressive even wreak-less sometimes game play. I guess it depends on what you like but give me Neese based on that and his higher ceiling.

    Carter - Ultimate glue guy... Hit a lot of big shots and did a lot of things on both sides of the floor that won basketball games. Never one of my favorite players and always a bit over-rated (imo) by our fan base. But you go Carter here 9 times out of 10.

    Lathan - in a photo finish? Wow. Tough call. Lathan was a much better two way player than Key. Lathan was a better rebounder, shot blocker and all around defensive player. Key is a more dynamic offensive player that has the ability to be one of the best in the league. But the league isn't what it was when Lathan was playing. Lathan could change the "feel" of a game pretty quickly with some of his dunks. I think the majority here would go with Key who probably has a higher ceiling - but they're probably not considering how much better Lathan was on D than Key has been so far.

    Hankins - McWhorter didn't last 4 years so how can he even get consideration. If you don't graduate a Sycamore you don't get consideration here.

    Washington - Just a more physical and a more dynamic player. He will make more mistakes and get chewed on more than Lu. Eitel ever thought of - but he's just a better all around player. Not better shooter - just a better player.

    But here is what it all comes down to... I think our role/bench player are better on the team we have now. But the alpha dogs are just not as good as those kids we had back then. In fact - I think that starting 5 is a better starting 5 across the board.


    PG. Odum

    SG. Kelly

    SF. Lathan

    PF. Richard

    C. Walker
    Last edited by SycamoreStateofMind; 06-24-2019 at 09:31 AM.
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    I think PG is the only position that the '11 team is better than now as far as the starters.

    But if JB has a good year, we'll be much stronger in our top 9.

    Excited about the future. Watching LaRavia reminds me of Odum.
    Last edited by sycamorebacker; 06-24-2019 at 12:18 PM.

  7. #7
    Supporting Member SycamoreStateofMind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sycamorebacker View Post
    I think PG is the only position that the '11 team is better than now as far as the starters.

    But if JB has a good year, we'll be much stronger in our top 9.

    Excited about the future. Watching LaRavia reminds me of Odum.
    Obviously don't see it that way at all... In fact - if you're going to go so far as to say then why not give me a breakdown and tell me why I'm wrong and you're right because I broke it down player by player. I'd love to know...

    For instance - Agbo hasn't played a single D1 minute in his career. How can you fairly say that he's better than Walker was for us?? Walker was extremely valuable piece on those teams. Calling any one of our 4 Centers better than him is disrespectful.

    You can make a case for Key or Neese at the 2 over Kelly - I'd probably take Key over Kelly at the 2 and give you the benefit of the doubt.

    But I'm not taking Key or Neese or C. Williams over Lathan at the 3. Again - Lathan was a pretty good two way player. All 3 of those guys would have to improve drastically to measure up to Lathan on D.

    Who you playing over Richard at the 4? Seriously, take your pick - I will go find Richard right now where ever he is in life and he is probably still today a better option.
    Last edited by SycamoreStateofMind; 06-24-2019 at 02:27 PM.
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  8. #8
    Legend TreeTop's Avatar
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    This won't be as thorough as SSOM's, but...

    Kitchell 6’10 225 Kessinger 6’8 230
    KESSINGER - Kitchell redshirted in 2010-2011, so yeah, I'll take a redshirt senior over a redshirt.

    Martin 6’8. 220 Brinkmeyer 6’9 215
    MARTIN - I'll take the senior shot blocker over Brinkmeyer as a redshirt freshman.

    Walker 6’8 250 Agbo 6’8 280
    WALKER - senior vs freshman

    Mahurin 6’8 185 LaRavia 6’8 220
    LARAVIA - this is an interesting one because RJ was a freshman in 10-11, so I'll go with LaRavia based on all I've hearing about him.

    Doluony 6’8 195 T Williams 6’7 240
    T.WILLIAMS - Koang was a sophomore and didn't have a lot of strength to his frame.

    Kelly 6’6. 185 C Barnes 6’6 215
    KELLY - senior vs freshman

    Richard 6’5 215 C Williams 6’5 210
    RICHARD - just so SSOM doesn't freak out if I pick CWilliams. But in all seriousness, Richard was a great player (1,000 points, 700 rebounds).

    Odum 6’4 170 J Barnes 5’11 155
    ODUM - no explanation necessary - although, it's interesting that it's a senior vs freshman scenario and I still feel like it's hands down, Odum. Put Barnes up against any other player on the 10-11 roster, and I'd go Barnes.

    Printy 6’4 185 Neese 6’4 190
    NEESE - I think Neese has shaken off the rust and we're gonna see some exciting things this season.

    Carter 6’4 195 Bacote 6’3 175
    CARTER - but it's a tough comparison cuz Bacote is a true point guard and Carter didn't play that role much (or at all).

    Lathan. 6’3 205 Key 6’2 205
    LATHAN - just so SSOM doesn't freak out if I pick Key. And in all seriousness here, I think I might go with Key. We'll see where his junior-year ceiling is, come March of next year.

    McWhorter 6’2 185 Hankins 6’4 195
    MCWHORTER - both are freshman in this comparison and I just don't think Hankins is gonna see the floor much this season. Steve avg'd 15mpg in 10-11.

    Lu. Eitel 6’2 185 Washington 6’3 210
    WASHINGTON - Lucas played in 21 games with extremely limited minutes in 10-11, I'll take Washington ALL DAY in this comparison.

    Lo. Eitel. 6’2 180 Martin 6’0 180
    INSERT ANY WALK-ON
    Last edited by TreeTop; 06-24-2019 at 03:07 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SycamoreStateofMind View Post
    Obviously don't see it that way at all... In fact - if you're going to go so far as to say then why not give me a breakdown and tell me why I'm wrong and you're right because I broke it down player by player. I'd love to know...

    For instance - Agbo hasn't played a single D1 minute in his career. How can you fairly say that he's better than Walker was for us?? Walker was extremely valuable piece on those teams. Calling any one of our 4 Centers better than him is disrespectful.

    You can make a case for Key or Neese at the 2 over Kelly - I'd probably take Key over Kelly at the 2 and give you the benefit of the doubt.

    But I'm not taking Key or Neese or C. Williams over Lathan at the 3. Again - Lathan was a pretty good two way player. All 3 of those guys would have to improve drastically to measure up to Lathan on D.

    Who you playing over Richard at the 4? Seriously, take your pick - I will go find Richard right now where ever he is in life and he is probably still today a better option.
    I'm not counting Agbo. I'm figuring on BK and BB giving us as more than Walker (6.5,5) (defense is a question)
    Lathan and Richard each had more TO's than any player last year. I can't believe you're comparing anyone to Key. He scored 17 ppg, shot 52% with 49 TO's.
    Lathan scored 11 ppg, shot 41% and had 87 TO's. Richard scored 9.5 ppg, shot 41% and had 79 TO's as a 6'4" PF.
    Not sure about our PF this year since we don't know Agbo. But Key, Williams and Neese give us much more on the wings than Lathan, Carter, Kelly.

    Mahurin and McWhorter were both just FR and AC was a shooter. I'm VERY confident with Bacot, LaRavia, Cobie Barnes, and Washington contributing more. Especially with their 7 yrs of experience.

    And throw in JB's 14 ppg coming back as a bonus.
    Last edited by sycamorebacker; 06-24-2019 at 05:47 PM.

  10. #10
    Supporting Member SycamoreStateofMind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sycamorebacker View Post
    I'm not counting Agbo. I'm figuring on BK and BB giving us as more than Walker (6.5,5) (defense is a question)
    Lathan and Richard each had more TO's than any player last year. I can't believe you're comparing anyone to Key. He scored 17 ppg, shot 52% with 49 TO's.
    Lathan scored 11 ppg, shot 41% and had 87 TO's. Richard scored 9.5 ppg, shot 41% and had 79 TO's as a 6'4" PF.
    Not sure about our PF this year since we don't know Agbo. But Key, Williams and Neese give us much more on the wings than Lathan, Carter, Kelly.

    Mahurin and McWhorter were both just FR and AC was a shooter. I'm VERY confident with Bacot, LaRavia, Cobie Barnes, and Washington contributing more. Especially with their 7 yrs of experience.

    And throw in JB's 14 ppg coming back as a bonus.
    We’re going to find out...
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